Theorys, Thoughts, Questions On Venomous Snakes

I was just thinking about venomous snakes, Feirce snakes in particular.
They are generally accepted to be the worlds deadliest or most venomous snake, of course this based on test which show that a bite from one has enough venom to kill a quarter million mice.
Note that exact amount of venom is not specified. Other species from around the world, may have a greater killrate. Two factors come into this.
1. The locality: Feirce snakes for example come from a very remote region of australia, where humans are few and very far between. In contrast Cobra's are found in areas with lots of people, who not only share the habitat, but in many cases, wear sandles or no shoes at all. Hence the cobra has a greater killrate.

2. the chemical makeup of different snakes venoms varies greatly, not only between species, but between different localitys of the same species.
For instance, the American Bushmaster's bite is nearly always fatal despite antivenom, where as our king brown, though deadly, has venom which can be countered with antivenom.

The toxidity of Feirce snake venom is a matter of curiosity, why is it so toxic?
The snakes predators I would think are mostly Eagles and the like, and a mouse or rat, unless its from crypton, certainly dosent need to be chemically 'nuked'.
so what is the reason for extreme toxidity in the snakes venom?

First thoughts are the snakes enviroment. Its very dry and Arid, rain is probly not a regular occurance. Food for prey is not abundant.
so with prey being hard to find (note that I havent actually looked into statistics of prey populationsetc, just assuming) perhaps the reason is the feeds will be few and not often.
The snake will need a means to ensure that no opportunity to feed is lost.
With extremely toxic venom, this may mean even a poorly aimed strike that fails to inject much venom will still ensure the prey dies and the meal is not lost.
Yet it still seems a bit 'overkill', 250, 000 mice worth of toxidity!

other possibilities. The enviroment is very open, there is little cover, or obstacle.
This means, fleeing prey may outrun the snake if the initial strike failed to kill.
Extreme toxidity acts fast, the prey drops before it gets too far.
less potent and the prey may flee out of range and be found and eaten by something else first. (remember the eagles)

So the venom ensures a fast kill and a sure feed. Is there more to it?
There has been great discussion of what part various snakes venoms play in digestion of prey. Perhaps the feirce snakes venom rapidly breaks down the prey ensuring fast digestion?

why might a feirce snake need to digest prey fast?
back to the enviroment. Its open ground with not much cover, its hot and dry territory. A snake exposed to the air while basking for long periods to digest prey, is vulnerable to its own predators (the eagles again) so perhaps this plays a part.

Could it also be the snake being from such a dry region, has little water reserves.
with water being scarce, less fluid can be used internally for digestive acids (just my theorys) so perhaps its venom does the bulk of the digestive work .

Just my thoughts anyway, feel free to add your own theorys.

Inny

I have to agree with you on all that Inny. It'd be nice to have a resident venomous specialist. I'd love to learn more about them! - I personally am more interested in the death adders and red belly black snakes, - as I'm sure Ice will eventually get some of either.

Why not get Ice to join us? Im sure hes got lots to say, we'd love to have him aboard!

Meanwhile we can only hope to eventally aquire folk with different experience, diff animals etc. I wish we had somebody with exotic vens and lizards too.

Id personally love to hear more about venomous lizards.

I agree with both of you... i rekon that the reason not much is known about this is because not many people keep them.... you go on the net and you can find anythin about a bearded dragon or a carpet python but if you look for a fierce snake all you will find is where they live etc etc . . and you cant approach the people that work in zoos cause they dont want to have a word of it.

Ha ha, Ice dosn't like typing or ocmputers in general. So when he does have something to say it sounds nasty. That's why he dosn't even post much on APS anymore!!

The thing with keeping vens, is that there isn't alot of money in them, the breeder I now work for use to keep only vens, and had to go into pythons to earn some cash back. The funny thing with vens is apparently the market goes into a full circle - like lately it seems like the market is picking up for vens and starting to be more popular, than it does a full circle again and you can't sell what you breed. To keep vens, you need to milk them and sell their venom - which there is alot of money in, but how many keepers do you think would actually do that? A few people that I've seen keep vens in various forums in Australia, have a 'safe cage', wherein there is lockable hides or sides of the cage so virtually no handling of the snake is necessary. My thing is why keep a snake you're scared of? - I'm not scared of the venoms but I definitely respect them as I personally don't want to get tagged! Red belly black snakes are supposedly the most 'tamest' and most first-timers of vens will get one first. One guy I used to know would walk around his house (usually when people were there!) with a massive RBB draped his neck! - He was so quite he was a pet! I've been told they stay that way while you feed them dead prey, when you change onto live food their nasty instincts come into play.

i have to agree with u to inny, but there is 1 thing i would add and it is that "most" venemous snakes are not nearly as bulky and strong as pythons or boas so therefore wen it eats prey it needs to kill the prey fast incase the prey is stronger and might hurt the snake if it doesnt kill it fast enough, and constriction is not as fast as venom and the snake may not be stronger enough to even kill by constriction, like sum colubirds just paralize their prey so they can eat it easier

feel free to disagree....

p.s inny sorry 4 spellin and grammer user posted image

personally i would keep RBB'S, Death adders, And tiger snakes if i did keep vens when im older . . . Now with what your saying with the food brown snakes dont bite their prey and let it run they bite it and hold on to it untill it dis but they dont wrap around it like pythons.... they bite and hold on

I don't think they really hold onto their food? - I might be wrong though. I thought they just tagged them a few times than follow their heat/smell trails and eat the dead thing. I use to think the toxicity is due to the prey items, but I mean look at what pythons have been spotted eating - scrubbies eating wallabies/kangaroos (have you seen some of the scars on the snakes from the claws?), a snake eating a cat, possum etc? So yeah I like your theories, they make more sense than mine!

Well what i saw was fist hand in John Canns collection.. it was interesting to watch

pythons have great strength and power and size so therefore dont need venom

hey guys,
fierce snakes dont have many ememies. Mulga snakes and perenties would be the biggest threat as predators but once a fierce snake is fully grown a perenti isnt likely to be stupid enough to try and tackle one. Snake species with high venom toxicity have more likely evolved to be so toxic because of their food source. Fierce snakes feed primarily on large rats which they probe burrows to find. When the snake finds a rat, the rat is cornered and therefore going to defend itself even more. A bite from a large rat could kill even the biggest fierce snake through infection or just weakin the snake leaving it vulnerable to birds of prey and monitors. All the fierce snake needs to do it give the rat a nip n get the hell out of there, only to return when the rat has died.
Fierce snake venom is neurotoxic so i doubt it has any real benefits to digestion.
As for the bushmaster and mulga snake. Both snakes have huge amounts of venom compared to the majority of species but seeing as the bushmasters have been recorded at 14 foot long (holy sh*t thats huge) its no real surprise that they have a higher kill rate then mulgas which are also huge snakes at 2.5-3m in length. Both snakes will cause necrosis and turn your leg into swiss cheese if there is no medical attention. When mulga snakes bite people there is often a lump at the bite site due to a build up of venom, just like when you recieve anticetic from a docter n there is a lump before the stuff disperses. Another reason why bushmaters would cause more deaths in relation to the amount of bites is that they cause internal bleeding.
Although fierce snakes are the most toxic snake i doubt they r the most dangerous...sorry to state the obvious once again. I dont think the snakes that cause the most bites should be classified as the most dangerous either. Puff adders in africa are notorious for biting people, but as daniel mentioned, the people in these regions often wear sandals or just go barefoot.
In australia i reckon eastern brownsnakes and coastal taipans would be the most dangerous species. Both being slender n very fast and renound for short tempers and repeatedly striking.
Alright, i reckon iv bored you all enough, but hey...i was bored and needed to keep occupied with something

catch yas later,
Brendan.

ps- feel free to critisize anything i just wrote...its late n im tired.